On the IRS, taxes, Social Security, and freeborn sovereignty...

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samurai kai

Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional... Joined: October 2, 2003 Status: Offline Posts: 505 Rep:

On the IRS, taxes, Social Security, and freeborn sovereignty...

Sat Aug 13, 2005 2:35:18 AM #12671 Perm Link

So I was looking through websites and am researching (I am ALWAYS researching) listed causes and effects of psychological brainwashing and came upon http://www.mind-trek.com/practicl/index.htm . After reading it, I have come to realize what I thought was freedom in the United States was just an illusion. The government tricks you into "contracts" by use of fancy wording and what not, to pay taxes and give up certain rights. I have always wondered how the government could do the things it could if I was "free". Anyway, the fact that they trick you into paying taxes via social security cards, drivers licenses, marriage licenses, etc infuriates me. It also explains though why everything in the IRS booklet says you are "voluntarily" assessing yourself and paying taxes. I was thoroughly infuriated after finding out that (among other things), the IRS isn't part of the US government (otherwise, it would be called United States Internal Revenue Service) and it (as well as most government laws) is both illegal (as it infringes your common law rights) and works on 90% bluff. The good news (if you want to call it that) is you can stop supporting the government that is screwing you over by revoking your social security, legally stop paying federal and state taxes, and declare yourself a freeborn sovereign. It is a pain in the ass to do it though, and you raise the possibility of pissing off some government officials but as the law is already on your side, they usually move on to the other millions of American Citizens (slaves) to avoid going to court and risk it becoming public knowledge that almost all the government is made of bull shit. I eventually plan to revoke my social security card and stop paying "voluntary" taxes to the IRS. Read the articles in the link and decide for yourself. There is always risk involved, but I guess it's all about what true freedom is to you. Not only that, if enough people discovered and applied the knowledge on that site, the IRS would collapse on its own. Furthermore, the site has inspired me to research true free enterprise markets (i.e. no taxes) and various freedom movements and organizations. I personally think our current government is beyond repair, and by not supporting them and working with others to create a true free marketplace and way of life is the only way to correct it. I always had suspicions about the government and didn't particularly care for the current system, but I have decided to do ample research on alternatives and do something about it. Remember, you don't have to change the system by force (as that would most likely lead to more violence and less freedom), you just have to create a better alternative and the people will naturally flock to it, and the old system will collapse upon itself as people withdraw support (like the Soviet Union). Ok, I am done ranting...

"If you leave you life in someone else's hands, you only have yourself to blame if you get crushed. "

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Aron Schatz

2014: Year of change. Joined: August 3, 2001 Status: Offline Posts: 10753 Rep:

Re: On the IRS, taxes, Social Security, and freeborn sovereignty...

Sat Aug 13, 2005 7:40:43 AM #12672 Perm Link

In response to samurai kai #12671

You are dead wrong. First of all, taxes are voluntary. If you don't work or own a home, no taxes for you. Driver's license? That's a privilage, not a right. You don't NEED to drive anywhere. Income tax was originally placed to support the revolutionary war, but has stuck ever since.

Free markets: Okay, you give up Welfare (I agree), Social Security (Do not agree), and any other socialistic plan. Social Security alone helps MILLIONS of elderly people that otherwise would be screwed. Also in a free state, your rights as a person are less. Corporations don't care about you. What you are proposing is an anarchist state (one without government).

Corporations would own you instead of the government. You can choose which. Ohh, keep an eye out behind you, there are no laws in an anarchist state. Be my guest to 'free' yourself from the US, but since the government has done a good job of doing what it is supposed to do, I'll stick around.

2014 is going to be a good year. More content, more streamlining. Be a part of history!

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samurai kai

Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional... Joined: October 2, 2003 Status: Offline Posts: 505 Rep:

Re[2]: On the IRS, taxes, Social Security, and freeborn sovereignty...

Sun Aug 14, 2005 9:07:53 PM #12679 Perm Link

In response to Aron Schatz #12672

Said By Aron Schatz
You are dead wrong.

Though my previous statement may have contained errors, to outright claim I am dead wrong without further investigation and proof is a bigger one.

Said By Aron Schatz
First of all, taxes are voluntary. If you don't work or own a home, no taxes for you.

Then what about the people renting homes or living with someone else that have taxes taken out of their paycheck (Me for example)? The point I was trying to make is that it is illegal for the government to take taxes out of your paycheck. The U.S. constitution allows for excise taxes, alcohol taxes, and tobacco taxes. It is against the law to tax individuals without their consent (which they couldn't get without hidden contracts.) Also according to United States Common Law, a man is entitled to keep ALL the fruits of his labor. That includes all the money you make from your job. Let me give you another angle to look at it from... Say your neighbor came to you with a gun and demanded you give him a percentage of your hard-earned money because you work. This act would be called robbery, and the man would be a robber. Now say a group of men came to you, called themselves a gang, and did the same thing? Though now it is a gang threatening you, it is still robbery. Now say a million people came to you and called themselves the "government" and demanded you money? How is that any different that the first case scenario? It is still robbery. The "government" didn't do anything for the money. They weren't out with you helping you work and earning the money. They just sit there and take it out of your paycheck like a parasite.

Said By Aron Schatz
Driver's license? That's a privilege, not a right. You don't NEED to drive anywhere.

And would you be singing the same tune if the government required you to get a license to use a computer? After all, you don't NEED to use one. Also for reference, the first drivers licenses were only required for commercial uses (Taxi, trucking etc). Back to the first sentence though, you pay for your computer, the electricity used to run it, all of the accessories, so why should you need a license to operate it? As for the drivers license, a natural born sovereign has no need of one (Did George Washington have to get a horses license in order to travel on a horse) though most still carry one to avoid the inconvenience of ignorant cops who would wrongly fine them which would force the person to go to court. The point I was making about the drivers license was that unwittingly when you sign it, it affirms that you will pay taxes to receive "benefits". Benefits such as what?... Traveling in the style I want? What right has the government to tell me that (unless I am harming someone or their property)?

Said By Aron Schatz
Free markets: Okay, you give up Welfare (I agree), Social Security (Do not agree), and any other socialistic plan.

Social Security came around when our good president Franklin Delano Roosevelt was good friends with the king of Socialism, Stalin. It even has "Social" in it's name for crying out loud.

Said By Aron Schatz
Social Security alone helps MILLIONS of elderly people that otherwise would be screwed.

It may help to an extent, but you will never get back what you put in. The IRS pools the money that is for social security with all the rest of the money, not into a separate account for you when you retire. Under the Uniform Commercial Code, you have the right in any agreement, to demand a guarantee of performance. The thing is the government can't and won't make that guarantee. If you don't believe me, call them up and ask them yourself. Even though they make it out to be that you have to have a social security number, it is voluntary. If you want more proof, refer to the following court cases as they pertain to taxes and social security: U.S. v. DeWitt, 76 U.S. 41 (1870), License Tax Cases, 72 U.S. 462 (1866), U.S. v. Fox, 95 U.S. 670 (1878), Patterson v. Kentucky, 97 U.S. 501 (1879), U.S. v. Steffens,100 U.S. 82 (1879), Baldwin v. Franks, 120 U.S. 678, 7 S.Ct. 656 (1887), Reagan v. Mercantile Trust Co., 154 U.S. 413, 14 S.Ct. 1060 (1894)... There are at least 10 more I can reference. If the government is forcing you to pay into a fund for when you retire (which is illegal), they should at least guarantee you will get as much back as you pay in.

"If you leave you life in someone else's hands, you only have yourself to blame if you get crushed. "

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samurai kai

Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional... Joined: October 2, 2003 Status: Offline Posts: 505 Rep:

Re[3]: On the IRS, taxes, Social Security, and freeborn sovereignty...

Sun Aug 14, 2005 9:08:28 PM #12680 Perm Link

In response to samurai kai #12679

Said By Aron Schatz
Also in a free state, your rights as a person are less. Corporations don't care about you. What you are proposing is an anarchist state (one without government).

Maybe you interpreted it that way but that is not the case. I fully understand the implications and limitations of an anarchist state and would rather have a totalitarian dictatorship that that (at least the people the dictator favored would be somewhat safe lol). I am proposing that we smack the government on the hands like a child and say "No, that's mine, not yours." By standing up and showing the IRS you are intelligent enough to study and know all of the law and legally stop paying taxes is a good first step. If we don't show the government where to stop, they won't. It is just too easy to live like a parasite and get a free meal. Think of WWII and the Jews in Germany. When the newspapers started claiming they were the cause of all the problems in Germany, did they stand up and say "That's not true."? No, they just sat there and let it go on. When they were forced to wear the Star of David did they stand up and say "That's a violation of my rights."? No again, they just fooled themselves into thinking it was ok because it was a religious symbol and they would be proud to wear it. When the dreadful night came and all of the Jews' businesses and houses windows were smashed, did they come out and say "That is against my rights, they destroyed my property."? No they just cowered back and said amongst themselves "We better not do anything more to piss these guys off". Finally they were taken away to concentration camps and killed and couldn't do anything to change that even if they got up, protested, and asserted their rights. They point is that if you don't show them where to stop, they won't and it is only a matter of time before we pass "the point of no return" and are just like the Jews in the concentration camps.

Said By Aron Schatz
Be my guest to 'free' yourself from the US, but since the government has done a good job of doing what it is supposed to do, I'll stick around.

If you want to keep giving your hard earned money to the government, and abdicate your rights one by one, be my guest. I think I'll work on keeping mine...

"If you leave you life in someone else's hands, you only have yourself to blame if you get crushed. "

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Aron Schatz

2014: Year of change. Joined: August 3, 2001 Status: Offline Posts: 10753 Rep:

Re[4]: On the IRS, taxes, Social Security, and freeborn sovereignty...

Sun Aug 14, 2005 9:20:15 PM #12681 Perm Link

In response to samurai kai #12680

How do you expect the country (government) to run without tax? Or would you rather have sales tax instead of any state or federal tax (Think %30-40 tax). I'm in favor of that over income tax. It is foolish to expect that the country will run the same with no money.

And hell yeah, I think you should get a license to operate a computer.

2014 is going to be a good year. More content, more streamlining. Be a part of history!

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Thefremen

LOL whut? Joined: September 29, 2002 Status: Offline Posts: 2475 Rep:

(No Title)

Sat Aug 27, 2005 6:15:14 PM #12883 Perm Link

There are two things you cannot escape from in this world of ours, and that's death and taxes. But why are federal and state taxes on cell phone plans so freaking high these days? Most people with 40 dollar plans pay about 4-5 bucks a month. This wasn't the case 4 years back, I tells ya.

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